This is a rush transcript of "Tucker Carlson Tonight" on October 6, 2022. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS HOST: Good evening and welcome to TUCKER CARLSON TONIGHT.

Kanye West, now known as Ye, is one of the best-selling musical artists in the world. He is also in recent years have become a celebrated and very highly-paid fashion designer. And of course, for a decade, he was well known to TV audiences as an in-law of the Kardashian family.

But it's West's latest incarnation as a kind of Christian evangelist that brought us to his office in Los Angeles today for the interview you're about to see. Days ago, during Fashion Week in Paris, West, accompanied by his friend Candace Owens, unveiled a t-shirt that read simply "White Lives Matter." The response from the fashion industry and international media was instantaneous and uniform -- shock, horror, rage.

"There is no excuse for this," thundered "The New York Times."

"West is legitimizing extremism," shrieked "Rolling Stone." Et cetera, et cetera.

What was strikingly missing from the coverage, however, was any explanation for why West did this. What was the t-shirt about? No one seemed to think to ask him, much less to listen to what he had to say.

Instead, the enemies of his ideas dismissed West as they have for years -- as mentally ill, too crazy to take seriously. "Look away. Ignore him. He's a mental patient. There's nothing to see here."

But is West crazy? You can judge for yourself as you watch what we're about to show you.

He has his own ideas, we can say that. Creative people tend to. That's why they're artists, not actuaries. His free-form social media post gives the impression of a maning his rawest emotions right onto Instagram.

The effect can be jarring and it is often used as ammunition against him in the battle for influence over the minds of America's young people and that battle is intense.

But crazy? That was not our conclusion.

In fact, we've rarely heard a man speak so honestly and so movingly about what he believes, but again, you can judge for yourself.

Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CARLSON: So you just came from Paris Fashion Week. You just landed. Your lanyard still on from it, and there's a photograph on it. What is that?

KANYE WEST, RAPPER AND FASHION DESIGNER: It's a photograph of a baby's ultrasound.

CARLSON: Why is that -- and that you designed that?

WEST: Yes.

CARLSON: Why? What does that mean?

WEST: It just represents life. I am pro-life.

CARLSON: Oh, so you wear it on a badge. What kind of response do you get and Amen. I agree.

WEST: I don't care about people's responses. I care about the fact that there's more Black babies being aborted than born in New York City, at this point. That 50 percent of Black death in America is abortion. So, I really don't care about people's response. I perform for an audience of one and that's God.

CARLSON: I'm starting to see why they want to make you be quiet.

How -- when did you start to feel this way? When did you start to realize this?

WEST: I really felt like -- I think I started to really feel this need to express myself on another level when Trump was running for office and I liked him, and every single person in Hollywood, from my ex-wife to my mother-in-law to my manager at that time to you know, my so-called friends/handlers around me, told me like if I said that I like Trump that my career will be over, that my life would be over.

They say stuff like people get killed for wearing a hat like that. They threatened my life. They put my life -- they basically said that I will be killed for wearing the hat.

I had someone call me last night and said anybody wearing a "White Lives Matter" shirt is going to be greenlit and that means that they're going to beat him up if they wear it. I'm like, you know, "Okay, greenlight me then." You know.

You know, God builds warriors in a different way. I don't know if it's because of me being born in Atlanta and growing up on the Southside of Chicago that, you know, He made me for such a time like this.

It's like with David, you know, he tended to the sheep, but while he was out there, he had to fight all kinds of animals. So, when it was time for Goliath to come, he thought because he was a sheep herder that he didn't have the skill set to take down Goliath.

And the thing that I have, the position I have, my heart, that the number one thing is we have God on our side. And for the people -- even if you don't believe in God, God believes in you.

CARLSON: So, you made reference to the White Lives Matter t-shirt that you brought out at Paris Fashion Week. Why did you do that? And what did it mean?

WEST: You know, I do certain things from a feeling. I like -- I just the energy. It just feels right. It is using a gut instinct, a connection with God and just brilliance.

You know, like, because if you ask like, Tonya Harding how she did the triple flip or the triple spin. She was in so much practice that when it was time for her to skate in a competitive format, it just happened. Like it happened outside of practice, it happened in the real format. And that's what happened -- that is what has happened is God is like preparing us for the real battles.

And we are in a battle with the media, like the majority of the media has a godless agenda and the jokes network in this whole like, "Oh, Ye is crazy" and all of these things, they don't work because the media has -- you know, they have also watched travesties happen, just even specifically to me, and just watch it and act like it wasn't happening and stay quiet about it.

CARLSON: What are they?

WEST: I want to answer the White, because I feel like, someone caught what I was saying the comparison to Tonya Harding about the White Lives Matter.

You know, my dad is educated ex-Black Panther and he put a text to me and he said "White Lives Matter. Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha." And I said, I thought the shirt was a funny shirt. I thought the idea of me wearing it was funny. And I said that, what do you think it was funny? He said, "Just a Black man stating the obvious."

And, you know, my dad doesn't listen to rap music and he is like, super educated. We opened up a water distribution center in the Dominican Republic together. He is like the original Steve Jobs. But he was getting blocked every which way with all of his ideas and he didn't have an endless bank account and he didn't have Instagram. So all of these ideas, he had to like, take them back and compress them.

Like my dad is the most brilliant person that I know, and we actually have a strained relationship, because that was taken from him. Because my mom was an actress. So, she was a liberal and my dad would see certain things and say, you know, we should do it this way, we should do it that way. And the people got around my mom and pulled her away much like, you know, Kim is a Christian, but she has people who want her to go to interview magazine and put her ass out while she is a 40-something-year-old, multibillionaire with four Black children. And this is what, how fashion wants to -- how they want to present her.

So I know you give these -- you give these questions, and I give you like these three part answers. This is a cool format for you?

CARLSON: Yes. I love it.

WEST: Okay, cool.

CARLSON: And I am following you.

WEST: All right.

CARLSON: So you said that your father said when he saw the shirt, White lives matter, it's great to see a Black man stating the obvious. So, by which I think you meant that's obviously true.

WEST: Yes, that is my favorite response, because I kept on thinking like, you know, people, they're looking for an explanation. And people say, well as an artist, you don't have to give an explanation, but as a leader you do.

CARLSON: Yes. I think that's right.

WEST: So the answer to why I wrote White Lives Matter on a shirt is because they do. It is the obvious thing.

CARLSON: Yes. Why do you think that's so -- and I assume the implication is, of course, all lives matter because they are lives, because God created them. Why do you think that that would be considered controversial?

WEST: Because the same people that have stripped us of our identity and labeled us a color have told us what it means to be Black and the vernacular that we're supposed to have.

My dad grew up as a military brat and his family moved around, but they're based mostly in Delaware. And at the time, if he wasn't -- if they weren't the only Black family, they were one of the few and he would be discriminated against because he was Black.

So by the time he got into college, he would be discriminated against. He went to Black college, he would be discriminated against because they said he talked too white.

CARLSON: Yes.

WEST: And then he played the kick drum in the band. So, when he would go to the club and the music was playing, where would he clap his hands where the kick drum is. So it is the opposite of where everyone else that is clapping their hands.

CARLSON: Right. Right.

WEST: And this is the most elegant and tasteful person that I know, and when my mom -- when the school suggested are like the herding systems, because what they do is take the Black community and they separate us, and they separate the families and the educated, you know, they pushed this, you know, need for higher education. And us as Blacks, we discriminate against each other and say, well, I got my PhD, and you don't have your PhD. So, I'm better than you.

And so my mom, she had a PhD and she was influenced to move to the south side of Chicago and take this job at Chicago State University. And she told my dad, if you come for us, you know, you'll never see him again. Because, you know, the media ridiculed me for getting the house next door to Kim to see my children, and they even said that I was stalking her and her new boyfriend, because I bought the house next door to see my children.

And that's how I knew that my mom had said that to him. I said dad, you know, they moved us to one of the most danger -- agreed upon to be one of the most dangerous places in the world. It's almost like they tried to kill me or something. I said, Dad, why didn't you ever come to get us? And that's when he told me that she was told that.

You know, so many things that are put in Kim's head, you know, they bring influencers, like no one ever know where Corey Gamble came from. No one in the fashion world knows where Gabby came from. These people were practically made in a laboratory, in my opinion, and one of the things that they're really good at doing is being nice, and being likable.

And what they do is for people that have some form of influence, whether it's an educated Black woman like my mother that became the head of the English Department at Chicago State University, or whether it's the most influential White woman on the planet, being my ex-wife, they have people that are around them at all them telling them what to be afraid of.

It's like not what to do or say specifically, it's what to be afraid of, and if you have a person that isn't afraid of them, you know, like a Russell Brand or Candace Owens.

CARLSON: Yes. That's right.

WEST: It is not that we have to agree with this, but --

CARLSON: They're not afraid.

WEST: They're not afraid to state what their opinion is.

CARLSON: Yes.

WEST: Everyone -- no one is God, and everyone has an opinion.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CARLSON: So, a conversation like this is a window into a world that you don't see. So if you're familiar with West from the media, you think of him as an individual man. What you don't think about is that he is at a center of a battle and people like him are at the center of a battle to get a message out.

Mouthed by the lips of influencers like him and so many others that extends a storyline on behalf of well, in this case, the status quo. So, there are a lot of people vying to make certain that people like him say the right things. And the consequences for not doing that are very severe.

So for him to come out and say all lives matter, obviously is a huge threat to a lot of people. Who are those people exactly? Well, we asked him, and he told us. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON: If the average person goes on social media and expresses unapproved thoughts, it is a problem for the people in charge, and if you keep doing it, they will silence you and that has happened to countless people. We've interviewed a lot of them on the show.

But if you were to have say 18 million followers on Instagram and expressed unapproved thoughts, that wouldn't just be a problem for the people in charge, it would be flat out emergency. You are not reading the script and you might lead others astray. You're an apostate, you are dangerous. You're a witch.

And that is effectively where the artist formerly known as Kanye West, now called Ye West, finds himself tonight: He will not be controlled.

In fact, in one of those poignant moments in our exchange, which we'll show you in a moment, he was shocked to discover that after becoming one of the most successful and richest people in the country, he still wasn't free to say what he thought, and that changed his life, that realization.

More of our conversation with West now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WEST: There's a group mob, it's like, liberal Nazis that will go up and attack you. Like I said, you know, everyone is like, "Anna Wintour is your friend." I'm like, this Gabby girl and Gigi and these people they would have never said anything negative, unless they got the okay from "Conde Nast," unless they got the okay from Anna. They would have never got the okay to comment, like let's just talk about specifically --

CARLSON: So these are people who are attacking you for your t-shirt.

WEST: Well, it was a setup.

It started off as -- it started off as them having this Black girl comment and say, "Well, I felt traumatized when I saw this t-shirt." This is like a Black girl saying I felt traumatized when I saw a Black man wearing something that he wasn't allowed to wear. It's like in "Django," when Jamie Foxx is on top of a horse and Samuel L. Jackson is like, you know, that Black guy is not supposed to be on top of the horse. Okay.

And then I went and said, "Hey, I don't like your boots. I know Anna Wintour doesn't like your boots, and you're not a fashion person." And then people started to say I was a bully, but it was a setup. And they finally got it right because I eliminated the BLM officer at Adidas, and then I got out of the GAP deal, and just one by one by one, I'd just be -- I've been winning these battles, right? And they thought they had me.

They had the idea that Ye was bullying. What I think the term the liberal term is, a body goal, "Black woman." Now, let's talk about Gabby and my good friend Lizzo.

Lizzo works with my trainer, a friend of mine, Harley Pasternak. When Lizzo loses 10 pounds and announces it, the bots, that's a term for people like - - it is like telemarketer callers like on Instagram, they attack her for losing weight, because the media wants to put out a perception that being overweight is the new goal when it is actually unhealthy.

Let's get aside the fact of whether it's fashion and vogue, which is not, let's just -- or if someone thinks it is attractive, to each his own. It's actually clinically unhealthy. And for people to promote that, it's demonic.

You know --

CARLSON: Can I ask you? I've noticed this also.

WEST: Yes.

CARLSON: Why do you think they would want to promote unhealthiness among the population?

WEST: It is the genocide of the Black race. They want to kill us in any way they can.

Planned Parenthood was made by Margaret Sanger, a known eugenics with the KKK, and I believe that if we saw ourselves as more -- if we saw ourselves as a people and not a race, then we would treat our people better.

Like if you go to a Jewish person and you say a race, it's it almost gets confusing. They will cut you off quickly and say, "We're not a race, we are a people." Well, are people supposed to just say, "Say it loud. I'm Black and I'm proud." Okay, well, what about? Do you own the land that you're living in? Do you own -- is the contracts even in a language that's even possibly understandable?"

CARLSON: Right.

WEST: You know, for your heritage. You know, and in America, we as Blacks will like down each other on how good we speak, but we are speaking English. There is nothing whiter than English. We're not in our native tongue, actually. So, we judge each other on White goal lines, not based on exactly what our culture is based on.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CARLSON: So, you can agree or you can disagree, but it is pretty clear that what you just heard is not the approved script, and famous people must read from the approved script or else the whole system falls apart because then people might be encouraged to think for themselves, and once you do that, it is a chain reaction that winds up with disobedience.

So someone like Kanye, now, Ye West must be controlled.

So, he was a little surprised to learn after his divorce that his former wife had, in fact, a close and secretive relation with the Clintons, that they were working on her to influence him to read from the script.

Pretty amazing. He was shocked by it and so were we. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON: The first indication that West might become a massive problem for the industrial deception complex came in 2015 and 2016 when Donald Trump appeared, and West had a very strong gut reaction to Trump that was very positive and the people around him were panicked by this.

The last thing you could have is one of the most popular pop culture figures in America coming out for Donald Trump, so they applied intense pressure to get him back on the script. And apparently his wife was part of that, his former wife, Kim Kardashian, who West now learns had a very close relationship with the Clintons and people around the Clintons. He had no idea.

His relationship with Trump, on the other hand flourished and he got a window into the people around Trump. And in this clip, you'll hear him assess what happened inside the White House. It is very interesting. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WEST: It was interesting, a friend of mine told me that Kris and Kim had called him because he had influence inside of the Black community, and had called him to say -- oh, to get him to influence people to take the vaccination, and I have an opinion on that, I just want to state that as a flat statement.

But it was -- it was wild that I didn't know how close my own wife was to the Clintons. I didn't know, you know. I didn't realize that at the time.

CARLSON: But you were married to her.

WEST: And while I was married to her.

CARLSON: How close was she to the Clintons?

WEST: I mean, cell phone away like or hey, tell Ye to say this away or, hey, go out and use your platform to push the vaccination away. I mean, not away, but like take the away part, but --

CARLSON: Do you feel like at times you were manipulated by political forces through your wife?

WEST: Attempt manipulation. But yes, there was some manipulation. Me not saying I like Trump was a form of manipulation.

CARLSON: For sure. Why did you like him by the way? You said he liked him early like you saw him.

WEST: I mean, I keep telling this joke. If people say Trump was the first Black President, I'm going to be the first Latino President, because all the values like the conservative values just line up. Come on, man. Trump says, [bleep]. What do you mean? He has his own buildings. What are you talking about? He's like Ralph Lauren. He made Ivanka.

CARLSON: You like Ivanka?

WEST: Yes.

CARLSON: You wrote a post on Instagram about her husband today?

WEST: Yes. You know, I had dinner with Ivanka, Jared, and Josh and a couple of days later, I found out that Josh Kushner had 10 percent of SKIMS, which is a line that I had developed with Kim and I had a lot of issues with the imagery of SKIMS. I felt like there was a lot of imagery that was overly sexualized and things that I wouldn't want to see my wife and definitely not my daughters doing in the future in order to sell a product. But it reaches another level when it is like okay, well, this is what my wife is doing and this is what they're doing for -- this is what she is doing for our children.

But it reaches another level when her business partners are selling pieces of a company that they don't have to because the company is already so successful and it's an internet based company. So it's like they're really just selling off the company in order to create more relationships for themselves that are unneeded.

It's like when I went to the GAP and with our release, they just like -- they shoveled it out. I'm very cautious with my words. I'm really big on being able to have an adult conversation in front of the children, so I don't use explicit language in interviews, especially.

So, I found out after this dinner that Josh Kushner had 10 percent of SKIMS, and I had five percent of SKIMS. And regardless if, you know Josh Kushner figured out how to put $150 million, I'm sure it wasn't out of his own account, but $150 million -- and I'm sure Jared still has a piece of that fun.

Regardless of them putting that money in, for me to have been an owner in it and that known just from a place as a creative where SKIMS is so based on a lot of the Yeezy ideas, then it is based on all of the relationships in fashion, because I had to use my relationships in fashion in order to establish Kim in a way where fashionable people would say, hey, I'm down to where Kim's line.

And these VCs they come in and they get a piece of it after the fact, and they run around and say they have ownership in it.

So as I put on my Instagram, which, you know, luckily for everyone, they could just write it off that, you know, I'm crazy, until they see my disposition in this interview, and then it's going to get scary.

I said, hey, Josh, what if I had 10 percent of Carly Claus' Lingerie Shape Wear Swimsuit line and you have five percent of it and you didn't know? How would that make you feel? And then after talking to them, and really sitting with Jared and sitting with Josh, and finding out other pieces of information, I was like, wow, these guys might have really been holding Trump back, and being very much a handler, right then. They love to just look at me or look at Trump like we're so crazy, and that they're the businessmen.

So when I think about all of these things that Jared, you know, somehow doesn't get enough credit for with his work and what is it his work -- in Israel or his work and -- what is this? You know, where he made these peace treaties? Where was that? You know, the facts on this right here. So I'm like --

CARLSON: Well, I think there was a treaty in Israel and some of the Arab nations.

WEST: I just think it was to make money. I don't know. Is that too heavy handed to put on this platform?

CARLSON: No, that's your opinion. We're not in the censorship business.

WEST: Okay, thank you. And I just think that that's what they're about, is making money. I don't think that they have the ability to make anything on their own. I think they're born into money.

And for me as a Maverick and a talent and a person that's been, you know, be kicked, lost everything, said to have lost my mind, went from pull myself up by my boot -- my boots don't have chaffs on them, but I say, pull myself up from my boots, to become a multi billionaire that gets that gets the price every year -- my net worth goes down every year on Forbes. They just keep on slowly just taking it down every year. It's like really a weird thing.

But as a person that has really built something from nothing, when I sit across the table from a Josh Kushner, and he just feels so entitled to that idea and this person has never brought anything of value other than so- called being a good venture capitalist, I have a major -- I have a major issue with that.

And it makes me feel like they weren't serving my boy, Trump, the way we could have because, you know, Trump wanted nothing but the best for this country and it doesn't -- like Moses stuttered in saying God is not always going to bring the most perfect personality.

A lot of times the most fake people, their job is talking and making people feel comfortable.

CARLSON: Yes.

WEST: You know, and the realest people are going to make you feel uncomfortable at first.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CARLSON: Yes, that's not shallow and it is also not crazy. It's true, whether you agree with that or not.

So, West has thought a lot about politics, and he has thought a lot about what's going to happen in 2024. You'll hear that coming up.

He is also very close to . Elon Musk, which we didn't know. I asked him off the cuff, do you know Elon Musk? Well, yes, very close. He has got a lot of thoughts on that, too. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON: We told you at the top, you'd be able to assess for yourself whether West is crazy as virtually every single media outlet on Planet Earth claims every day, all year long. Is he crazy? As you try to assess that, ask is what you just heard over the past 40 minutes any crazier than what you see on television every day? The lies, the lunacy presented to you with a straight face as reality? No, he is not. He is not crazy at all.

He is a big thinker though. We asked him about 2024 what he plans to do, and also about Elon Musk. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WEST: People with power try to make other people feel like they don't have any. My power is to God. So, if someone ever says anything like oh you did a great job. It's praise God.

It's funny atheists love the term narcissist when you believe in yourself.

CARLSON: Right.

WEST: They say that it's narcissistic. You know, I love the way -- I love the dynamic of how you compare -- you show that there is still humanity even with the position that God has placed me in.

Why did Moses smite the rock? Why did he you get that frustrated? And just to be able to be gentle to be more gentle. You know, God is alive. Look at this right here. Look at look at how quiet it is right now. It's only God. God is of order. The devil is of chaos.

CARLSON: That is true.

WEST: You know, we are -- I want to talk about my potential run for 2024 and Trump's potential ran for 2024 and the beloved DeSantis potential ran for 2024, Mayor Suarez potential run for 2024.

And, you know, they thought Trump was a joke. For older White people, they're quick to classify a Black person only by the fact that we're Black. Even Trump a person that we'd consider to be a friend of mine, when I went to the White House, I called him after that, to get A$AP Rocky out of jail. And one of the things he said to me is, you know, Kanye, you're my friend, when you came to the White House, my Black approval rating went up 40 percent. And for politicians, all Black people are worth is approval -- is an approval rating.

The Democrats feel that they don't owe us anything and Republicans feel that they don't owe us anything. Blacks have never demanded something for our vote and that is something I talked to Ice Cube about. What are we asking for? How do we change our life?

If all of our organizations and all of our colleges and even our title as Black was made by White people, all of our org -- you know, all of our jobs and Black Wall Street, Harlem after gentrification. There's never been a fully Black-owned community, where we have all the municipalities things that Dr. Claud Anderson talks about. We need that.

It's like 90 percent of America is not even developed. I'm not one of the people that go up and say, hey, I want to stop anybody from making money. The people that make money and the powers that be, I am your true Nikola Tesla and I'm not even a scientist.

CARLSON: What do you think of Elon Musk? Do you know him?

WEST: Very well.

CARLSON: What's your take on him?

WEST: You said that because I said Tesla?

CARLSON: I did. Yes. It was just the first thing that popped.

WEST: And that everyone is always like, oh, Elon has got these answers. I think he's a great -- I think he's a great team player.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CARLSON: And there's a lot more to come -- a lot more. He addressed specifically why did they call you crazy? And he says as clearly as he possibly can, there were some things that were driving me crazy, and I fixed them.

Jason Whitlock who knows a lot about all of this joins us next to assess what we've just heard.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON: It's amazing what the stakes are when a very famous person decides to speak his mind. Very famous people can't have free speech, that's not allowed and West discovered that when he initially decided he kind of like Donald Trump. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WEST: I never actually told people that I liked Trump when he was running, because I was bullied by Hollywood, because I stayed in Hollywood and people were like, think about your kids and I'm trying to hold on to the marriage. So, I'm just biting my tongue.

Like there are so many fathers and mothers that go to work every day and they're in a situation where they're biting their tongue because they think it would be better for their children.

CARLSON: Yes. That's right.

WEST: So even me in my position, I was biting my tongue on my political opinion because I thought it would be better for my children.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CARLSON: We've got a lot more on that and what it did to him as a man living through it tomorrow night.

But first, our friend, Jason Whitlock, host of "Fearless" joins us to assess what you just heard.

Jason, what did you think of that?

JASON WHITLOCK, HOST, "FEARLESS": Tucker, I thought a lot of things and forgive me for doing this, but I'm going to unpack all of this on my show tomorrow. Find me at youtube.com/jasonwhitlock.

But listen, that's a man wrestling with his faith in God and wrestling with the fame that makes him money and makes him rich.

And so throughout that interview tonight, I heard a guy that's a devout Christian and I heard a guy that is cursed with the disease of fame. It has undermined his ability to be a good father. It has undermined his ability to be a good husband. It has undermined his happiness.

He wants to be a Christian and the things he said about his faith and just wearing the lanyard with the ultrasound, all of that, I love that about Kanye West. It scares the heck out of the left to see someone like Kanye West, that popular, that influential, his skin color that has those Christian values because that's what's really under attack, his Christian values, it scares them. They don't want him to survive. They're using him.

I'm going to make an analogy continental roots. They got him out on a tree and they're whipping, him. What's your name? And they wanted to say left- wing liberal, and he won't say it. He said, I like Trump. I like God. I'm a Christian. And they keep whipping and slashing him and they're trying to make this man bow down to the liberal orthodoxy, and they're doing it as a message to me and everybody else. If you don't get in line with what we want you to think, every Black man, every heterosexual Black man, every Black man with Christian values, we will beat you into a pulp.

Kanye is man enough to stand up, I wish more men were.

CARLSON: What does that do to you to discover that you can be one of the richest and most famous people in the world and you still don't have the simple right to say what you really think?

WHITLOCK: What it does to Kanye is make him realize the importance of God and his faith, because that's the only protection you have. Again, the guy used the words that I believe. This is demonic. Everything the left preaches to Black people -- you should be overweight, you should kill your babies in the womb, you should embrace a negative culture that teaches you to kill each other and disrespect each other.

It's a death culture. It's a genocide. It's demonic just like Kanye West said.

I hope he wins his battle with fame, because if he does, he's a very important voice, Tucker.

CARLSON: How can you say you respect someone or a group of people if you don't allow them to reach their own conclusions about the world around them? If you respect a man, you let him say his piece and you listen respectfully.

WHITLOCK: It is clear as day the left doesn't respect Black people. We are being used as pawns in their demonic game that they are playing. And I know that sounds hyperbolic, but it's just factual. It's a death culture. It's hostile to Christian values. You have to throw them all out in order to serve their political movement.

You have to be pro-abortion. You have to believe in the matriarchy and the disruption of the nuclear family.

If you're a person of faith -- Black, White, whatever -- if you understand a biblical worldview, family is at the heart of all of it and that is why Kanye is so devastated because his family has been destroyed.

His wife is eating from the forbidden fruit of feminism, the matriarchy, and the left's demonic culture. His family has been destroyed. Any person with just a layman's understanding of faith, of Christian faith, the family is at the heart of the structure. That's what God designed.

This man's family has been ripped apart because his wife won't buy in to his vision. She has been influenced by the Clintons and the Democratic left. These people have all been bought and paid for.

This man is paying a heck of a price. I'm very proud of him.

So I go back and forth sometimes on Kanye, because again, he is struggling with fame and he'll do some things that are inconsistent with his Christian values. But overall, is Kanye trying to be a force for good? Absolutely.

CARLSON: Yes, he is. Which counts.

Jason Whitlock, thank you for that. Great to see you.

WHITLOCK: Thank you.

CARLSON: So that interview was scheduled for 30 minutes, it went on for almost two hours. From our part, we didn't really say anything.

So there is a lot more to bring you and we are going to. Our Originals team, our documentary team is embedding with West to find out exactly what he is doing in this business. It will be a great documentary.

We will see you tomorrow. Here is Sean Hannity.

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